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Exclusive: Truelieve CEO Kim Rivers on MSOs, Florida Cannabis by Charles Warner

Kim Rivers is one of the most enigmatic and well-known individuals in the cannabis industry for a variety of reasons, but most importantly it’s for building one of the most successful multi-state cannabis operators (MSOs) in the United States, Trulieve. Her business acumen and ability to scale Trulieve in a medical market, while remaining profitable, is undeniable.

However, there is another side to Rivers, focused on her advocacy for legalization. Despite its market size, Florida is still just a medical market with a huge upcoming ballot initiative, Amendment 3. In Florida, there is a lot at stake for her brand and the entire cannabis industry as a whole. Heck, even The Donald himself has recently weighed in somewhat positively on cannabis and Amendment 3, understanding what is at stake with this election. 

Her commitment to social equity is also undeniable and not just for show, with multiple expungement clinics and partnerships with brands involving people who paid the price with years in prison to lay the groundwork for the industry we have today–familiar names like Richard DeLisi , Bobby Tuna and even the Sunburn Cannabis brand.

There are also many critics of Kim Rivers. They tend to be very vocal with their disdain for corporate cannabis and its influence on the grassroots nature of the industry. Critics claim big MSOs prioritize profits over the plant and smaller businesses but as she said to us, it’s not like Trulieve can service a potential six-billion-dollar Florida industry by itself. Besides, you have to wonder if some criticism comes simply because she’s a powerful woman in a male-dominated industry.

Cannabis & Tech Today sat down with Kim Rivers at her corporate headquarters in Tallahassee, Florida and talked about legalization and Amendment 3, social equity, misconceptions about MSOs, technology and science in the industry and some of the women she admires in the industry. Enjoy our exclusive conversation with one of the most powerful women in the cannabis industry and decide for yourself.

C&T Today: For some of our audience who might not know how you came to be, could you briefly speak to your origin story and how you got to where you are now?

Kim Rivers: I’m a recovering lawyer, and I’m not sure what step of the program I’m at right now, but somewhere on that journey. I moved from doing mergers and acquisitions and securities law to the private side, where I became an entrepreneur. I was involved in a number of different companies, from startups to more mature companies. I had just had an exit when I was asked if I’d be interested in joining what is now Trulieve. 

Initially, the idea was that we might get the license and flip it, but it became clear that we needed to build a company. They asked for help, and I gave the typical lawyer answer: “It depends.” After doing some research, I saw that the cannabis industry in 2015 had interesting opportunities in terms of brand penetration, customer service, and scale. So, I said, “Let’s give it a whirl.” We put together a 2,000-page application for Florida’s license, scored the highest, and became one of five companies awarded a license. And then it was off to the races!

C&T Today: Did you feel like Florida was ready for cannabis in 2015?

KR: Florida was unique. [Trulieve] actually started as a CBD company. The state required vertical integration, and there was a lot of hesitation from lawmakers. But things moved quickly when they passed the Right to Try Act in 2015, allowing us to cultivate THC for terminal patients. A year later, a ballot initiative passed with over 70% of Floridians supporting medical cannabis. With that level of public support, the legislature couldn’t ignore it. By then, Trulieve had over 20 locations in Florida, so we were ready to serve the broader customer base.

C&T Today: Are you excited about the upcoming election?

KR: Oh yeah, absolutely! Florida is already a fantastic market with just under 900,000 patients, far surpassing the original prediction of 400,000. We’re a large financial supporter of Amendment 3, which is about expanding access to cannabis. Floridians will finally have the chance to vote on adult-use cannabis, which is monumental. We’ve had three previous attempts that failed in court, but this is a real opportunity for the people to decide.

C&T Today: The polling looks good, but there’s always opposition. Are you optimistic?

KR: Yes, I’m optimistic. Over a million Floridians signed the petition to get this on the ballot. When we talk to people, most agree that no one should be in jail for small amounts of personal-use cannabis. And Floridians deserve access to safe, tested products. We’re also seeing dangerous cannabis laced with fentanyl on the streets, and that’s a public safety issue. Legalizing and regulating cannabis can address this and generate hundreds of millions in tax revenue for communities. It’s an exciting time.

C&T Today: I’m a veteran, and I’ve seen how cannabis has been a game-changer for many veterans. And as a father of a 19-year-old who’s had health issues from vaping unregulated products, I really appreciate the focus on quality control that I saw when I toured your facility.

KR: Absolutely. After we launched, I got a call from a mom involved with Canna Moms, and she asked for lab reports on our products. That wasn’t required by the state at the time, but we decided to make it available for everyone. Now it’s an expectation in Florida. Patients deserve to know exactly what’s in their product, especially for health-compromised individuals. We’re very passionate about transparency and safety, and it’s something the entire industry should strive for.

C&T Today: It seems like some of the standards in the cannabis industry make more sense than other industries. You probably know more about where your cannabis comes from than the produce you buy.

KR: Exactly! We’re still pushing for federal involvement to establish uniform standards across the country. That’s where we’re heading, but we’ve come a long way in ensuring safety and quality for consumers.

C&T Today: Speaking of federal involvement, the recent news about rescheduling cannabis seems to be a big step forward. Can you speak to that?

KR: Yeah, that was a big moment. When President Biden kicked off the process, we were happy, but the recommendation from the Department of Health and Human Services to move cannabis from Schedule 1 to Schedule 3 was huge. It’s significant because it acknowledges that cannabis has medicinal value. It also opens the door for more U.S.-based research and clinical trials, which is essential for the future of the industry.

C&T Today: There’s been some talk about people wanting cannabis to be completely de-scheduled. What do you think about that?

KR: Sure, that would be great, but policy in the U.S. usually moves incrementally. We weren’t going to get de-scheduling right off the bat. Moving from Schedule 1 to Schedule 3 is a great starting point. It creates a path for future progress, and with more research, there’s a possibility to move even further. It’s all about taking thoughtful, purposeful steps.

C&T Today: Yeah. It seems like the polling suggests that this has a really good chance of passing. But, of course, there’s going to be campaigning against it as well, right? So it’s really going to come down to the voters this year. Are you optimistic?

KR: Yeah, I am. I definitely think it’s time. Over a million Floridians signed a petition asking for the ability to vote on this in November. When we talk to folks, it really comes down to a few things. One, no one should be in jail for small amounts of cannabis for personal use. That’s first and foremost. Our data shows the vast majority of people agree with that statement. So, it’s time to do something about that, and this would accomplish that. 

Second, Floridians—adults—should have access to safe, tested products. We have, unfortunately, a real crisis with cannabis on the street that’s laced with everything from pesticides and heavy metals to fentanyl. Just a few months ago, there were nine people who died from fentanyl-laced marijuana in Quincy, Florida. Cannabis is here, so let’s make it accessible in a regulated and safe way. Finally, it’s an opportunity for us to generate hundreds of millions of dollars in tax 

C&T Today: So, talk a little bit about some of the biggest misconceptions about MSOs.

KR: Oh gosh. How much time do we have? (laughs) My favorite is that we’re just a big company that doesn’t understand what it’s like for the little guy, and we’re out of touch with actual cannabis culture and consumers.

First of all, my office was a conference room table at the grow for two and a half years. I was one of 10 employees when we started this company, and I did every single thing—from sweeping the floors to deciding when we were going to turn rooms to working on the dry room, doing harvests, and bucking plants. I was terrible at inventory; I’d always get the counts wrong. I’ve even filled capsules on Christmas Eve because I didn’t want our other employees to have to be there.

It feels like when someone gets a record deal. They’re suddenly seen as a sellout or a poser. Until you’ve walked in our shoes, it’s hard to understand. I hope everyone gets the opportunity to scale. This journey was hard-fought. My dad was a police officer, and my mom was a schoolteacher. I wasn’t born with a silver spoon in my mouth. We bootstrapped our way up, brick by brick, step by step.

There’s this idea that MSOs come from a different starting point, but that’s not always the case. Maybe sometimes it is, but not always. Another misconception is that there’s no “soul” in bigger companies. Having a bigger platform allows us to lean into things we’re passionate about in a more meaningful way.

For example, we’ve always been super passionate about helping groups like the Canna Moms, veterans, and advocating that no one should be in jail for cannabis. We’ve hosted countless expungement clinics across Florida and the country. Now, with a bigger platform, we can do that in a bigger and more meaningful way. We’ve launched brands specifically tied to folks who served time, helping them build actual careers in cannabis. I couldn’t do that if I only had one or two stores.

C&T Today: When you talk about things like SAFER Banking, how does that impact your company?

KR: SAFER Banking candidly does less for a company like ours than it does for smaller businesses. We already have banking relationships, lending, and public debt because we’re a public company. But for smaller businesses, it can be a game-changer. They don’t have access to SBA loans or community bank funding programs, which are essential tools for small businesses to grow. Right now, just because they’re in the cannabis business, they can’t take advantage of these opportunities.

I recently had a conversation on Capitol Hill about this. For smaller businesses, SAFER Banking is critical for funding and additional growth, and it’s key for women- and minority-owned businesses. So, while it may not affect us as much, it’s essential for the industry as a whole.

C&T Today: Do you follow what people say on social media about you and your company?

KR: I’m pretty active on X. I think it’s important to stay in touch with people. I definitely follow our brand and how we’re presenting ourselves, making sure that it resonates with our customers. I look at that quite a bit, but I’m not on all channels all the time—I can’t be! But yes, I’m active on X if people want to find me there.

C&T Today: Can you speak to the importance of women in leadership positions, not just in cannabis but across various industries?

KR: Absolutely. It’s not just cannabis—many industries, including tech, are male-dominated. There’s tons of research showing the importance of diversity in decision-making environments. When I talk about diversity, I mean in the traditional sense, but also diversity of background, thought, and experience. That’s what creates the best environment for robust debate, which leads to better outcomes.

At Trulieve, we’ve been intentional about diversity. For example, we headquartered in Quincy, Florida, which is a majority-minority community. We’ve invested significant resources there to change the fabric and future of Gadsden County, and we’re seeing positive results. In Pennsylvania, we renovated a former steel mill in McKeesport, bringing jobs to a struggling area. It’s important to walk the walk when it comes to investment and building communities.

I’m also proud that 50 percent of our board is made up of women. Having that mentorship and support around me is invaluable. However, I will say, when I go to conferences, it’s still a pretty lonely room when you divide by any metric on the diversity scale. We still have a long way to go, but it’s incredibly important to diversify leadership, especially in cannabis.

C&T Today: Are there any other CEOs or leaders you admire or are inspired by?

KR: Definitely. In the cannabis industry, Nancy Whiteman (Wana Brands) is someone I really admire. She built something incredible, and I remember having a conversation with her after a deal she made, and I was like, “Yeah, that’s awesome.” Outside of cannabis, Ruth Bader Ginsburg is on my wall. As a former lawyer, I admire her ability to work across the aisle while always being cognizant of the other side. That’s a key strength.

C&T Today:  Let’s switch over to talk about Trulieve. I got to look at your facility, and it was almost like art and science had come together. The attention to detail, the attention to quality, and also being really smart about your systems—the tray system, to me, was super, super smart. Can you speak a little bit to the importance of technology and automation for you to be able to run a successful business and put out great products?

KR: We are big believers and have been investing in cutting-edge technology really since the beginning and have sought out and like to be on the leading edge wherever we can be. Of course, in cultivation, which you saw today, but really all the way through the chain.

So we’ve been—a couple of things that I’ll speak to in our cultivation facilities—it’s really been about iterations over time. And that facility in particular, we really studied some of the bigger facilities in Canada. So we had the opportunity to visit Aurora and Canopy’s facilities. And they were very interesting.

But I think one thing that we really kind of maybe took issue with was the notion that those facilities were designed to keep people out of the grow. So it was just 100 percent automated, no touch on the plants. And, you know, from my vantage point, that’s not great because the plants need interaction—not just from a monitoring perspective, but I mean, you want to prune, you want to make sure that all of your environmentals are correct, and you’re making adjustments as needed for that particular plant, that particular environment at that particular time.

And so we took a lot of those concepts and really worked to reverse them. So we have higher touch on the plant, but the movement in the facility is more efficient. So we’re able to make the workers’ time more efficient—involved with the plant as opposed to walking from point A to point B or taking the soil from point A to point B. It’s kind of that wasted time. And so that was sort of the thought process behind it.

And then, you know, I would also always say it’s one thing to have it on paper; it’s another thing for it to actually be executed well. And so the team there has just been incredible at dialing that facility in because any of us in cannabis, we always know that until you’re in the facility and you’re dealing with those walls and that foundation and wherever the sun is going to hit that ceiling, that water, that everything, right? It really is just a plan that has to be executed on. And so that team has just done an incredible job of dialing it in.

And now we’re at a point where, out of that 750,000 square feet, we’re averaging 27 to 28 percent THC and 3 percent terpenes on a consistent basis. And to do that at scale is just really, I think, an incredible testament to the team and to the design.

But in addition to that, we’re also invested in technology across the platform. So we were—I think we still might be one of the only, if not the only, cannabis companies to be on SAP, which is an enterprise-grade ERP system. We just launched a new website called Web 2.0, which has an incredible amount of embedded features really honing in and connecting with our CDP—customer data platform—where we’re constantly looking for ways that we can, again, be a more traditional retailer. Understanding our consumer preferences, speaking directly to them in a way that they’re responsive to, and providing offers that make sense for them as opposed to blanket offers.

And that has been a real differentiator for us as well. And you see that show up in our financials, where we’re able to offer really competitive pricing but in a way that doesn’t completely crush our bottom line because it’s targeted.

And so being smart—it’s a win-win; it’s a win for the customer, and it’s a win for us. And then also getting predictive. So we know what we should be investing in and what we should be making, so we don’t have a lot of waste.

C&T Today: So what are your thoughts on pre-rolls? How important are they to what you do in providing for the customers?

KR: Pre-rolls are interesting, and it really is going to have some variability across markets for us. In Arizona, which is, of course, an adult-use market and medical market, the pre-roll category has been really exploding over the last two years with a lot of variability and variations—infused pre-rolls, you know, infused pre-rolls with kief—all the things. And so it’s very interesting to me. I always love the creativity in this industry in terms of where that category has gone.

C&T Today: And sizing as well.

KR: I was just going to say size and style, right? Now it’s the round ones, you know, that they’re liking—kind of thicker.

But again, that tends to be a little bit more dependent on that product ecosystem within the market and then also what’s allowable in the market. So in Florida, infused pre-rolls are not allowed currently. It’s kind of a little bit more standard. Although, yeah, there is differentiation among size and then also among, I would say, the quality. We’re starting to see quality differentiation and marketing quality differentiation among brands and competitors in the state of Florida.

Pennsylvania is probably our strictest market as it relates to product offerings.So, that’s a whole—we’ll leave that one alone. And then Maryland is a recent rec flip, so we’re just starting to see that variability come into the Maryland market. So it’s super fascinating.

I think, certainly among recreational adult-use customers, pre-rolls are a big item, obviously, and just for folks who want to try and maybe aren’t in the market for an extended period of time.

C&T Today: They can be ultra-premium too. So it’s not just shake and bad stuff getting put in there. It’s actually really high quality. What about edibles?

KR: Yeah, edibles are huge. Again, a product that has a strong following in medical markets but, of course, exponential when adult use comes into play for convenience—a relatable form factor. We’re also seeing a lot of innovation in the edible space as we think about formulation variability. You know, we have in all markets today formulations with not only just straight, standard THC but ratios—of course, CBN, which is fantastic for sleep. We’re starting to play with some of the other minor cannabinoids as well. And then also, you know, texture and taste.

C&T Today: Flavor profiles and all of that.

KR: And the live rosin. I think for us, being also responsive to the customer from a value proposition perspective. So, you know, we have two primary edibles brands, and they have different—one’s more elevated than the other and different price points and whatnot.

I think, too, the other part with edibles that we have to be mindful of is not crowding the shelves because, you know, in markets like Arizona and Pennsylvania, it’s super easy to—because there’s so many of them available, right? So, I mean, you could have like 20 different—

C&T Today: It’s almost overwhelming.

KR: Exactly. And so, again, as a retailer—I mean, we’re the largest retailer in the country—that’s another thing that we’re always cognizant of is what’s the customer experience, right? Making sure that we don’t have paralysis of choice.

So it’s important to have variety and to meet that mix requirement, but we don’t want to have so many that folks—or that our folks are not able to be really educated on the product, right?

C&T Today: I do think the edibles are very approachable, and I think that, for a lot of people that maybe don’t want to smoke something, having the ability to have a gummy or have a little piece of chocolate or something like that makes it kind of approachable to the maybe non-combustible user.

KR: Yeah, and I think also it’s been a game-changer to have the fast onset with the nanoemulsion technology that now is very available. So we’re hopefully getting away from the whole construct of, “Oh, I take an edible, and then I have this higher risk of having a bad experience,” particularly for the new user. And, you know, that’s always the concern. But again, with the ability of nanoemulsion—and we have those products available, fast-acting—and certainly having that conversation with newer folks.

C&T Today: I was at Benzinga last year—and I had a funny story. I got to talk to the DiLisi family, and they had a really, really funny story about you. They said that they were at an event and Redman was there. And I’ve done a lot of work with Redman too—cool guy, good dude. Anyways, he said they were at this event, and Redman was like, “Hey, you see that white lady over there? You need to go talk to her.” I thought it was so funny how it came to fruition.

KR: Yeah, that is hilarious! We were at an event in Miami. I was on a panel, and Redman was on the panel as well. I was talking to him about what he was doing in the political activism world and trying to understand how we could coordinate and make sure we were in touch, if not fully coordinated.

Then, I think someone—maybe Ken, who is Redman’s nephew—introduced me to the DeLisi  family. We started chatting, and I was like, “Oh my gosh, we’d love to help. Let’s meet and see what we can do.” They ended up coming to Tallahassee for a meeting. At the time, Richard DeLisi  had just gotten out or was just getting out of prison, so it was very fresh.

They were figuring out housing and those first steps, which are exciting but also impactful on a family. His son was living in Amsterdam at the time and working in the cannabis industry. I even ended up getting on a Zoom with him, which was super cool. Richard was also coming over to see his grandchild for the first time. It was so emotional and exciting.

For me, being in this role with this company at this time, it’s a blessing to have the ability to say, “How can we help?” We’ve successfully launched other advocacy-based brands on our platform before, like Sunshine Cannabis, which has been a huge brand for us.

We’ve also worked with Black Tuna. Bobby Tuna was an old-school smuggler from Florida who served 30 years in prison. After he got out, he was key in passing the medical amendment in Florida. He’d sponsor events and travel across the state talking to seniors about the benefits of medical cannabis.

One night, I was reading a beautiful cannabis coffee table book, and I saw a strain called Black Tuna. I called Bobby and said, “You didn’t tell me you had a strain!” He had no idea, so I told him, “Bobby, this is your ticket! We need to bring Black Tuna to market.” That’s how Black Tuna got started. Bobby is no longer with us, but it was beautiful to help him and others who’ve dedicated their lives to cannabis.

C&T Today: Yeah, that’s great! People often don’t realize that there’s so much more behind companies like Trulieve. Just because they’re big, people think they’re disconnected from the community or not respecting the history. But that’s not the case—you guys are in it. Like you said, you’ve done everything, from sweeping floors to launching brands. It’s truly a “rising tide lifts all boats” situation.

KR: There’s no doubt. I’m so thankful for when and how we got our start. I really had the opportunity to work side by side with advocates in Florida as we pushed for things like smokable flower and increased access. Some of my strongest connections in the industry are with people from NORML and advocates in Colorado, who’ve been fighting these battles long before I came along.

I’m excited and thankful for those connections, and I hope they continue. I also hope we focus on commonalities instead of differences. Sometimes, especially in today’s world, differences are magnified rather than what we have in common.

This article was originally published in Cannabis & Tech Today Vol. 6 Issue 3.

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